ConferenceCall 2023 10 11 - Revision history

Forum at 20:54, 16 February 2024

2024-02-16T20:54:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:54, 16 February 2024
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	\|}		\|}

	= [[~~OntologySummit2024~~\|Ontology Summit 2024]] {{#show:{{PAGENAME}}\|?session}} =		= [[OntologySummit2024_FallSeries\|Ontology Summit 2024 Fall Series]] {{#show:{{PAGENAME}}\|?session}} =

	== Agenda ==		== Agenda ==
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	\|?\|?Session\|mainlabel=-\|order=asc\|limit=3}}		\|?\|?Session\|mainlabel=-\|order=asc\|limit=3}}

	[[Category:~~OntologySummit2024~~]]		[[Category:OntologySummit2024_FallSeries]]
	[[Category:Icom_conf_Conference]]		[[Category:Icom_conf_Conference]]
	[[Category:Occurrence\| ]]		[[Category:Occurrence\| ]]

AndreaWesterinen: /* Discussion */

2023-11-11T23:00:55Z

Discussion

Forum: /* Resources */

2023-11-08T21:08:34Z

Resources

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:08, 8 November 2023
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	== Resources ==		== Resources ==
	* [https://bit.ly/48PYojR Video Recording]		* [https://bit.ly/48PYojR Video Recording]
			* [https://youtu.be/BHqEjqWWVaQ YouTube Video]

	== Previous Meetings ==		== Previous Meetings ==

AndreaWesterinen: /* Discussion */

2023-10-15T19:07:38Z

Discussion

Forum: /* Agenda */

2023-10-12T14:27:28Z

Agenda

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:27, 12 October 2023
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	[https://bit.ly/3LYsfgh Slides]		[https://bit.ly/3LYsfgh Slides]

			[https://bit.ly/48PYojR Video Recording]

	== Conference Call Information ==		== Conference Call Information ==

Forum: /* Resources */

2023-10-12T14:27:04Z

Resources

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:27, 12 October 2023
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	== Resources ==		== Resources ==
			* [https://bit.ly/48PYojR Video Recording]

	== Previous Meetings ==		== Previous Meetings ==

Forum: /* Participants */

2023-10-12T14:22:58Z

Participants

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:22, 12 October 2023
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	== Participants ==		== Participants ==
			* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]]
			* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]]
			* [[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]]
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]]
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]]
			* John O'Gorman
			* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]]
			* [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]]
			* [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]]
			* [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]]
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]]
			* Phil Jackson
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]]
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]]
			* [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]]

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==

Forum: /* Discussion */

2023-10-12T14:22:39Z

Discussion

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:22, 12 October 2023
Line 41:		Line 41:

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Deborah what if the training set is not representative, how do we know the errors are due to lack of a good raining set or bad algorithms such as Bayes implementation?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Would like to know how much richness beyond ontologies can be added to KGs?
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : What about the converse: How can ontologies be leveraged to improve LLMs?
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Ontologies and knowledge graphs provide explicitness, in contrast to LLMs.
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Following this year’s FOIS in Canada, I submitted a proposal for a FOIS Working Group specifically for an ontology benchmark suite, in case anyone is interested in joining me in the effort.
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Bart, ‘ontology benchmark suite’??
			** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Yes, it’s exactly what is it sounds like. At FOIS there were a few presentations that used datasets and a few that found issues with published ontologies. It came from these works
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of Graphic way of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type template1
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : In wine ontology, what would be impact of adding one or two more variables?
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : I'm creating an ontology for the linguistics of temperature terms (how different language communities divide up the sensation of hot vs cold in different ways). I used chatGPT to help me with OWL syntax - but if I hadn't already had a very firm grasp of what I wanted to know, it would have led me pretty wrong.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : LLMs turn out to be the best version of a search engine at finding obscure data
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : (not calling this obscure, but it is ideal for finding exactly the works we are looking for sometimes)
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : Beware - chatGPT can sometimes delete classes without informing you if you run bigger ontologies through it.
			** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Sue that is why context and prior knowledge are good filters?
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : often i will ask "What information was jst left out"
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : and the LLM usually (with enough harassment) will supply me with what i wanted
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I like ChatBS as a term. LLM is technically bullshit.
			** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What is ChatBS? why is it more suitable?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Deborah I also started with changing the Country (e.g. India) and ended with changing myself.
			* Phil Jackson : Can LLM's perform 'self-talk' yet, e.g. to emulate artificial consciousness?
			** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : There’s a recent paper that evaluates whether the LLM knows it’s hallucinating, that may be close to its internet “thinking” as it explores different text it wants to generate: Azaria, A., & Mitchell, T. (2023). The Internal State of an LLM Knows When its Lying. http://arxiv.org/abs/2304.13734
			** Phil Jackson : thanks for this reference
			** [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : We'd want it to have an "evidentiality" signal, like some natural languages do!
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : Chat GPT3.5 or 4 there?
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : hah forecasting
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service
			* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts keyinputs to create a new exposures health ontology?
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year
			* John O'Gorman : @Semantium is using a faceted, foundational ontology
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : GPT for Python code, it's kinda hit-or-miss.. mostly garbage. But with Prolog and Lisp, it's useful!.. Maybe it's because there's less bad code out there (only one place the CMU AI archive).. Tehre will be a big market for LLM curators
			* [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : We don’t even know what ‘context’ is.
			** [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Context is the nexus of time, place, role, event etc. i.e. a bunch of concepts in the ontology (or instances of these)
			** John O'Gorman : @Todd Schneider - Context is the way language reduces ambiguity.
			*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : Youy have to harass them over and over John .. such as "Gbvie me three completely different translations to CLIF:
			* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.
			** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : will try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : Just as chatGPTs can do some programming they can express concepts in formal languages and thus help with Ontology population.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : i am in genral agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues
			* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)
			** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : https://ontologforum.com/index.php/WikiHomePage
			** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : Sign up and more info is here. Also, if you are not on it, I suggest adding yourself to the KGC Slack channel. https://www.knowledgegraph.tech/community/
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : Send email to membership@ontologforum.org
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Can we drop these chat notes into the mailer?
			** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Mike Bennett I will make sure that we have all these notes. I have the ones from the first session as well.
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : I've used chats for competency Qs but not use cases which seems like an interesting possibility as part of KE sessions.
			* [[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]] : will someone grab the chat and send to me?
			** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Deborah McGuinness I will!

	== Resources ==		== Resources ==

Forum at 15:47, 11 October 2023

2023-10-11T15:47:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:47, 11 October 2023
Line 28:		Line 28:

	'''Abstract''': AI is in the news with astonishing regularity and the variety of announcements is often dizzying. In this talk, we will explore some opportunities (as well as threats) from the world of generative AI with respect to semantic technologies. We will explore some questions worth pondering as we plan our ontology and knowledge graph directions and hopefully leave with some mutually beneficial synergies between large language models and classical Ontology Summit topics.		'''Abstract''': AI is in the news with astonishing regularity and the variety of announcements is often dizzying. In this talk, we will explore some opportunities (as well as threats) from the world of generative AI with respect to semantic technologies. We will explore some questions worth pondering as we plan our ontology and knowledge graph directions and hopefully leave with some mutually beneficial synergies between large language models and classical Ontology Summit topics.

			[https://bit.ly/3LYsfgh Slides]

	== Conference Call Information ==		== Conference Call Information ==

Forum at 12:58, 10 October 2023

2023-10-10T12:58:50Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:58, 10 October 2023
Line 21:		Line 21:

	== Agenda ==		== Agenda ==
	'''[[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]]'''<br />		'''[[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah L. McGuinness]]'''<br />
	Rennselaer Tetherless World Senior Constellation Chair<br />		Rennselaer Tetherless World Senior Constellation Chair<br />
	Professor of Computer Science, Cognitive Science, and Industrial and Systems Engineering<br />		Professor of Computer Science, Cognitive Science, and Industrial and Systems Engineering<br />

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:22, 12 October 2023
Line 39:		Line 39:

	== Participants ==		== Participants ==
			* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]]
			* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]]
			* [[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]]
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]]
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]]
			* John O'Gorman
			* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]]
			* [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]]
			* [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]]
			* [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]]
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]]
			* Phil Jackson
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]]
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]]
			* [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]]

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:22, 12 October 2023
Line 41:		Line 41:

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Deborah what if the training set is not representative, how do we know the errors are due to lack of a good raining set or bad algorithms such as Bayes implementation?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Would like to know how much richness beyond ontologies can be added to KGs?
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : What about the converse: How can ontologies be leveraged to improve LLMs?
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Ontologies and knowledge graphs provide explicitness, in contrast to LLMs.
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Following this year’s FOIS in Canada, I submitted a proposal for a FOIS Working Group specifically for an ontology benchmark suite, in case anyone is interested in joining me in the effort.
			** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Bart, ‘ontology benchmark suite’??
			** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Yes, it’s exactly what is it sounds like. At FOIS there were a few presentations that used datasets and a few that found issues with published ontologies. It came from these works
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of Graphic way of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type template1
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : In wine ontology, what would be impact of adding one or two more variables?
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : I'm creating an ontology for the linguistics of temperature terms (how different language communities divide up the sensation of hot vs cold in different ways). I used chatGPT to help me with OWL syntax - but if I hadn't already had a very firm grasp of what I wanted to know, it would have led me pretty wrong.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : LLMs turn out to be the best version of a search engine at finding obscure data
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : (not calling this obscure, but it is ideal for finding exactly the works we are looking for sometimes)
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : Beware - chatGPT can sometimes delete classes without informing you if you run bigger ontologies through it.
			** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Sue that is why context and prior knowledge are good filters?
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : often i will ask "What information was jst left out"
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : and the LLM usually (with enough harassment) will supply me with what i wanted
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I like ChatBS as a term. LLM is technically bullshit.
			** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What is ChatBS? why is it more suitable?
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Deborah I also started with changing the Country (e.g. India) and ended with changing myself.
			* Phil Jackson : Can LLM's perform 'self-talk' yet, e.g. to emulate artificial consciousness?
			** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : There’s a recent paper that evaluates whether the LLM knows it’s hallucinating, that may be close to its internet “thinking” as it explores different text it wants to generate: Azaria, A., & Mitchell, T. (2023). The Internal State of an LLM Knows When its Lying. http://arxiv.org/abs/2304.13734
			** Phil Jackson : thanks for this reference
			** [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : We'd want it to have an "evidentiality" signal, like some natural languages do!
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : Chat GPT3.5 or 4 there?
			** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : hah forecasting
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service
			* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.
			* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts keyinputs to create a new exposures health ontology?
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year
			* John O'Gorman : @Semantium is using a faceted, foundational ontology
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : GPT for Python code, it's kinda hit-or-miss.. mostly garbage. But with Prolog and Lisp, it's useful!.. Maybe it's because there's less bad code out there (only one place the CMU AI archive).. Tehre will be a big market for LLM curators
			* [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : We don’t even know what ‘context’ is.
			** [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Context is the nexus of time, place, role, event etc. i.e. a bunch of concepts in the ontology (or instances of these)
			** John O'Gorman : @Todd Schneider - Context is the way language reduces ambiguity.
			*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : Youy have to harass them over and over John .. such as "Gbvie me three completely different translations to CLIF:
			* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.
			** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : will try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : Just as chatGPTs can do some programming they can express concepts in formal languages and thus help with Ontology population.
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"
			* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles
			* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : i am in genral agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues
			* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”
			* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)
			** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : https://ontologforum.com/index.php/WikiHomePage
			** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : Sign up and more info is here. Also, if you are not on it, I suggest adding yourself to the KGC Slack channel. https://www.knowledgegraph.tech/community/
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : Send email to membership@ontologforum.org
			* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Can we drop these chat notes into the mailer?
			** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Mike Bennett I will make sure that we have all these notes. I have the ones from the first session as well.
			* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : I've used chats for competency Qs but not use cases which seems like an interesting possibility as part of KE sessions.
			* [[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]] : will someone grab the chat and send to me?
			** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
			** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Deborah McGuinness I will!

	== Resources ==		== Resources ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:00, 11 November 2023
Line 66:		Line 66:
	** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Bart, ‘ontology benchmark suite’??		** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Bart, ‘ontology benchmark suite’??
	** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Yes, it’s exactly what is it sounds like. At FOIS there were a few presentations that used datasets and a few that found issues with published ontologies. It came from these works		** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : Yes, it’s exactly what is it sounds like. At FOIS there were a few presentations that used datasets and a few that found issues with published ontologies. It came from these works
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of ~~Graphic way~~ of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of graphic ways of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?		* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type template		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type template
Line 75:		Line 75:
	* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : Beware - chatGPT can sometimes delete classes without informing you if you run bigger ontologies through it.		* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : Beware - chatGPT can sometimes delete classes without informing you if you run bigger ontologies through it.
	** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Sue that is why context and prior knowledge are good filters?		** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Sue that is why context and prior knowledge are good filters?
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : often i will ask "What information was ~~jst~~ left out"		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : often i will ask "What information was just left out"
	** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : and the LLM usually (with enough harassment) will supply me with what i wanted		** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : and the LLM usually (with enough harassment) will supply me with what i wanted
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I like ChatBS as a term. LLM is technically bullshit.		* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I like ChatBS as a term. LLM is technically bullshit.
	** [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What is ChatBS? why is it more suitable?
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Deborah I also started with changing the Country (e.g. India) and ended with changing myself.
	* Phil Jackson : Can LLM's perform 'self-talk' yet, e.g. to emulate artificial consciousness?		* Phil Jackson : Can LLM's perform 'self-talk' yet, e.g. to emulate artificial consciousness?
	** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : There’s a recent paper that evaluates whether the LLM knows it’s hallucinating, that may be close to its internet “thinking” as it explores different text it wants to generate: Azaria, A., & Mitchell, T. (2023). The Internal State of an LLM Knows When its Lying. http://arxiv.org/abs/2304.13734		** [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : There’s a recent paper that evaluates whether the LLM knows it’s hallucinating, that may be close to its internet “thinking” as it explores different text it wants to generate: Azaria, A., & Mitchell, T. (2023). The Internal State of an LLM Knows When its Lying. http://arxiv.org/abs/2304.13734
Line 88:		Line 86:
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service		* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service
	* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.		* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts ~~keyinputs~~ to create a new exposures health ontology?		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts key inputs to create a new exposures health ontology?
	* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year		* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year
	* John O'Gorman : @Semantium is using a faceted, foundational ontology		* John O'Gorman : @Semantium is using a faceted, foundational ontology
Line 97:		Line 95:
	*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.		*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.
	** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.		** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : You have to harass them over and over John .. such as "~~Gbvie~~ me three completely different translations to CLIF:		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : You have to harass them over and over John .. such as "Give me three completely different translations to CLIF:
	* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.		* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.
	** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : ~~will~~ try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda		** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : Will try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda
	* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : Just as chatGPTs can do some programming they can express concepts in formal languages and thus help with Ontology population.		* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : Just as chatGPTs can do some programming they can express concepts in formal languages and thus help with Ontology population.
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"
	* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles		* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : i am in general agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : I am in general agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues
	* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”		* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”
	* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)		* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:07, 15 October 2023
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	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of Graphic way of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Are LLM aware of Graphic way of understanding or even ability to create imagelike information from patterns?
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?		* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : I would expect a wine ontology to have 'Relative' concepts like terroir (land in wine context); vintage (time in wine context); varietal (grape in wine context) etc. i.e. contextually relevant concepts. The reason I mention it: how does any LLM recognize or relate to contextually relative concepts?
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type ~~template1~~		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : Seems like Agile development type template
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : In wine ontology, what would be impact of adding one or two more variables?		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : In wine ontology, what would be impact of adding one or two more variables?
	* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : I'm creating an ontology for the linguistics of temperature terms (how different language communities divide up the sensation of hot vs cold in different ways). I used chatGPT to help me with OWL syntax - but if I hadn't already had a very firm grasp of what I wanted to know, it would have led me pretty wrong.		* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : I'm creating an ontology for the linguistics of temperature terms (how different language communities divide up the sensation of hot vs cold in different ways). I used chatGPT to help me with OWL syntax - but if I hadn't already had a very firm grasp of what I wanted to know, it would have led me pretty wrong.
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	** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : hah forecasting		** [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : hah forecasting
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service		* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Mansplaining as a service
	* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.		* [[JohnSowa\|John Sowa]] : Summary of all these messages: LLMs are flaky. If you're lucky, they're great. If not, you have no idea what went wrong. That is not acceptable for any mission-critical applications.
	* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts keyinputs to create a new exposures health ontology?		* [[RaviSharma\|Ravi Sharma]] : What would have the outcome been if you had experts keyinputs to create a new exposures health ontology?
	* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year		* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : It will be good to look at these leverage and pain points again in a year
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	*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.		*** [[ToddSchneider\|Todd Schneider]] : Yes, but that’s an application of [a] ‘context’.
	** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.		** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : I have tried to provide ‘context’ in my prompts. For example, summarize this news article assuming it was written by a right-wing publication.
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : ~~Youy~~ have to harass them over and over John .. such as "Gbvie me three completely different translations to CLIF:		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : You have to harass them over and over John .. such as "Gbvie me three completely different translations to CLIF:
	* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.		* [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : My “sandbox” is translating NL to an ontology. Will be talking about it on Nov 1.
	** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : will try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda		** [[MarkUnderwood\|Mark Underwood (IS Innovation)]] : will try to make your talk. May have possible uses for specialized, DSL-type ontologies that are constructed from emerging, fresh domains; e.g., AWS Lambda
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	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : "Would that translation you just gave translate back to the same English?"
	* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles		* [[BartGajderowicz\|Bart Gajderowicz]] : John Sowa: Speaking with those in classic literature, translation models do a poor job exactly because of the nuances in classics where meaning is lost due to the poetic styles
	* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : i am in ~~genral~~ agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues		* [[DouglasMiles\|Douglas Miles]] : i am in general agreement.. and admit there is no clear way to resolve LLM issues
	* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”		* Ayya Niyyanika Bhikkhuni : The metrics are a concern even more when the “research” being done is about what something from an ancient language means and how to apply what it “means” in today’s world. So the pain point of competency metrics is not just the actual textual validity of the translation but also of “context.”
	* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)		* [[SusanneVejdemo\|Sus Vejdemo]] : What's a good way to get on the mailing list? I found this seminar from a Taxonomy LinkedIn group post. (I'm a linguist, semanticist)
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	** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : Sign up and more info is here. Also, if you are not on it, I suggest adding yourself to the KGC Slack channel. https://www.knowledgegraph.tech/community/		** [[LeiaDickerson\|Leia Dickerson]] : Sign up and more info is here. Also, if you are not on it, I suggest adding yourself to the KGC Slack channel. https://www.knowledgegraph.tech/community/
	** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : Send email to membership@ontologforum.org		** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : Send email to membership@ontologforum.org
	* [[MikeBennett\|Mike Bennett]] : Can we drop these chat notes into the mailer?
	** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
	** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Mike Bennett I will make sure that we have all these notes. I have the ones from the first session as well.
	* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : I've used chats for competency Qs but not use cases which seems like an interesting possibility as part of KE sessions.		* [[GaryBergCross\|Gary Berg-Cross]] : I've used chats for competency Qs but not use cases which seems like an interesting possibility as part of KE sessions.
	* [[DeborahMcGuinness\|Deborah McGuinness]] : will someone grab the chat and send to me?
	** [[KenBaclawski\|Ken Baclawski]] : The chat notes are posted on the session page.
	** [[AndreaWesterinen\|Andrea Westerinen]] : @Deborah McGuinness I will!

	== Resources ==		== Resources ==