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UoM_Ontology_Standard draft deliverable preview session - Thu 22-Oct-2009

This is a preparation session for our upcoming 30-October-2009 workshop. We expect to preview the draft deliverables that the various champions have put together so far, surface specific issues that may be hampering the drafting work, and do some preliminary alignment, in preparation for a more in-depth discussion during the 30-Oct-2009 full-day workshop.

  • Session Chair: Dr. FrankOlken (NSF) & Mr. EdwardBarkmeyer (NIST)

Archives

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 22-October-2009
  • Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 7:30pm CEST / 6:30pm BST / 17:30 UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: ~2.5 hours
  • Dial-in Number:
    • from a US telephone (US): +1-218-844-8060 (domestic long distance cost will apply)
    • When calling in from a phone, use Conference ID: "4389979#"
    • from Europe, call:
      • Austria 0820-4000-1577
      • Belgium 070-35-9992
      • France 0826-100-280
      • Germany 01805-00-7642
      • Ireland 0818-270-037
      • Italy 848-390-179
      • Spain 0902-886-056
      • Switzerland 0848-560-327
      • UK 0844-581-9148
    • callers from other countries please dial into either one of the US or European numbers
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/
    • view-only password: "ontolog"
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the presentation materials above and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.
  • Discussions and Q & A:
    • (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"
    • You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based chat session by:
    • or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20091022
      • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
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    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20091022@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!
  • For those who cannot join us, or who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse.
  • Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive, as well as all proceeedings are expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.

Resources

Attendees

  • Expecting:
    • ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail <peter.yim@cim3.com> so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...

Agenda & Proceedings

Agenda

1. Opening by session Chair -- Frank Olken / Ed Barkmeyer

2. Briefings from deliverable champions -- Ed Barkmeyer, Rob Raskin / Chip Masters, Pat Hayes, Howard Mason, Joel Bender / Peter P. Yim

3. Q & A and Open Discussion (All) -- please refer to process above

4. Action Items and Conclusion -- Frank Olken / Ed Barkmeyer

Proceedings

Please refer to the archives above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session

Frank Olken: I expect we will use the same teleconferencing facilities as

usual on Oct. 30. Our audio tech will call into the teleconference

Peter P. Yim: great, ... thanks, Frank

Peter P. Yim: Howard: note: maintenance agency ... registration authority

Frank Olken: I think we want a maintenance agency (which has

discretionary authority to approve new derived units).

Frank Olken: I think the maintenance agency should be something like

NIST.

Pat Hayes: 1. Should we have a quantity model? Seems to be a majority

agreeing that this is needed. 2. Explicit named units and Q. kinds? We

can't do them all, how many will we do and what do we do about the

others? Eg how do we relate to the UCM list? [Peter: maintenance issue

arises when normative standard is formal. Who adds items to

namespace/base?][Ed: yes, needs an authority or tool which can handle

this. Not impossible and needs to be done. Certainly a scope

issue.][Frank: exist 2 things. Extensions which are derived units,

should be automatic. But also, new named units like 'watts'.] <<much

discussion about mechanisms for administration and registration, etc..

ISO and OASIS both have various mechanisms...>>

Pat Hayes: Should have said, I was scribing Ed's speech above.

Peter P. Yim: thanks, Pat

Pat Hayes: Ed: quantity kinds more promiscuous than units. Do we needs

  • kinds* of quantity kinds? Need to choose a level to stop publishing,

this is unbounded in extent.

Joel Bender: Is 'scale' a 'derived unit'?"

Pat Hayes: Ed: scales. Email discussions went nowhere. Do we have scales

as part of the ontology? Unit conversions also an issue (4 so far).

Other issues further out: uncertainty, tolerance. But these are v.

complicated to do 'propoerly'. Do we need to handle these at all, if

only crudely? Chips (eg) does, but its about measurement. Do we want to

go this way?

Pat Hayes: Joel: I don't think so.

Pat Hayes: Ed: measurement is big area, need to bring other organizations

in if we go there, eg UK NPL. Probably can't do it all, but also not

completely omit.

Pat Hayes: Howard: need to consider target market for our ontology, to

focus discussion. XXphilosophy..

Pat Hayes: Ed: priorities. We need to have a time limit, so some things

are prunable. Final point: microtheories: not all extensions are

mutually compatible, possibly. Up to us to provde guidelines for this

situation.

Peter P. Yim: Ed Barkmeyer: OMG QUDV

Steve Ray: Sorry, had to run to another meeting...

Peter P. Yim: Ed will make an attempt to invite the QUDV leads,

Roger Burkhart (John Deere) & Nicolas Rouquette JPL) to join us on Oct-30

Ed Barkmeyer: Scope: assume quantity, quantity kind, SI named units,

scales, conversion are in, measurement and uncertainty, specification

and tolerance are less clear, it depends on our target audience and use,

available expertise and time.

Ed Barkmeyer: Big issue is extension: how to deal with the infinite list

of quantity kinds and the very large list of derived units.

Ed Barkmeyer: Pat: UML may be all that many will understand, OWL will be

definitive for the Sem Web folk, CLIF is really the hard form for people

committed to axiomatic definition and FOL reasoners.

Ed Barkmeyer: Pat: there are other reasons to use CLIF -- it allows

simpler consistent formulations of some complex notions

Ed Barkmeyer: Frank and Pat discussed concerns about the arithmetic, use

of functions like sine or square root. Pat: we want to stay away from

floating point and arithmetic error.

Ed Barkmeyer: The OWL folk have defined the datatype to be xsd:double,

i.e., IEEE 754 numbers.

Ed Barkmeyer: Pat: we want to assume mathematically exact numbers and

avoid computational issues. Yes, actual uses may have some problems if

the values and computations exercise the fringes of the computational

behaviors. (Ed: the common problem is just that decimal fractions (the

heart of metric) don't have exact binary renditions.)

Peter P. Yim: Howard: sending our draft TC charter to Jamie and inviting him

to do a 5 min. OASIS-101

Peter P. Yim: @Howard - please consider the proposal of "QUoM" (as an

alternative to "QUOMOS")

Peter P. Yim: Joel: workplan slides -

http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/UoM/UoM-standard-ontology_20091022/Trac-Motivation-and-Status--JoelBender_20091022.pdf

Pat Hayes: I also have to leave for another call. Peter, email me if you

have any, er, tickets for me.

Joel Bender:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UoM_Ontology_Standard_OASIS_TC_Charter_Draft#nid22D2

Joel Bender: thank you

Peter P. Yim: ref. getting buy-in from the standard bearers (e.g. BIPM) -

Steve & Howard making advances on those fronts; Ed feels we will be more

ready when we have a draft standard; Pat suggest using the now popular

notion of "Linked Data" to position ourselves

Peter P. Yim: great meeting, thanks, everyone

-- session ended: 2009.10.22-12:27pm PDT --

  • Further Question & Remarks:
    • please post content-related discussions to the [ uom-ontology-std ] listserv
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    • also (attn: project coordinators) please post administration-related discussions to the [ uom-ontology-admin ] listserv

For the record ...

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