Ontolog Forum
Session | Universal Query Language |
---|---|
Duration | 1 hour |
Date/Time | 11 August 2021 16:00 GMT |
9:00am PDT/12:00pm EDT | |
5:00pm BST/6:00pm CEST | |
Convener | KenBaclawski |
Universal Query Language
Agenda
- 12:00 - 13:00 EDT John Sowa Universal Query Language: Declarative or procedural, linear or graphic The slides are available from two sources: Slides and Slides
Conference Call Information
- Date: Wednesday, 11 August 2021
- Start Time: 9:00am PDT / 12:00pm EDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 1600 UTC
- ref: World Clock
- Expected Call Duration: 1 hour
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Attendees
- Alex Shkotin
- Andrew Dougherty
- Bill McCarthy
- Bobbin Teegarden
- Cassiopeia Miles
- David Eddy
- Doug Holmes
- Douglas R Miles
- Francis Gillis-Webber
- Jacob Friedman
- Janet Singer
- Jans Aasman
- John Sowa
- J.S. Hughes
- Ken Baclawski
- Meena
- Mike Bennett
- Phil Bryan
- Ram D. Sriram
- Ravi Sharma
- Steve Ray
- Todd Schneider
Discussion
[12:28] Douglas R Miles: Questions for John: Are two quantifiers enough (donkey quantifiers?)
[12:40] MikeBennett: Surely much of the 'fuzziness' can be solved by distinguishing (a) 'Seat' - something you sit on, and (b) 'chair': something built for sitting on
[12:41] ToddSchneider: Mike, yes. To what level of detail is an entity distinguished.
[12:43] Jacob Friedman: including intension/extension
[12:44] AlexShkotin: chair is hard https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chair
[12:45] Ram D. Sriram: @John Sowa: Do you have any references of the use of Zachman framework for ontology development.
[12:45] ToddSchneider: Ram,
[12:46] ToddSchneider: Ram, the usual interrogatives (i.e., who, what, where, when, ...) are themselves effective analysis tools for ontology development.
[12:48] BobbinTeegarden: John, how do you model context (w w w w w + h)? You showed Which (not part of the w+h string) and Why, where are the others?
[12:48] Douglas R Miles: speaking of 'fuzziness', it would be nice that people could give a value that says how far an instance is from the prototypical
[12:49] Douglas R Miles: (of course we have to define the prototypical)
[12:49] Ram D. Sriram: Here is an example of Zachman's framework for Standards Development: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251255745_Towards_a_Methodology_for_Analyzing_Sustainability_Standards_using_the_Zachman_Framework
[12:49] David Eddy: A Zachman Framework IMPLEMENTATION.... https://tdan.com/semantics-in-metadata-repository-and-systems-integration-efforts/6123
[12:49] David Eddy: The implementer was a Marine.
[12:50] David Eddy: I was never able to get John Zachman to talk about that bottom, implementation row.
[12:50] AlexShkotin: https://www.zachman.com/about-the-zachman-framework
[12:51] RaviSharma: Hello chat is accessible to me now
[12:52] RaviSharma: David - the reason is that implemented enterprise is a living changing and organization practices based "living" thing?
[12:53] ToddSchneider: Bobbin, One approach to 'context' is use of the notion 'relevance'. What is 'relevant' to the 'immediate' entities or processes of interest (at a particular spatio-temporal extent)
[12:54] David Eddy: @Ravi... obviously formally capturing change is an essential ingredient for success
[12:57] David Eddy: Goes without saying Zachman "cell" framework is the language used in each cell tends to be somewhat unique. Something of a challenge to the base concept of "universal."
[12:59] BobbinTeegarden: @Todd, thanks interesting... but how do you physically model 'relevance' or context...?
[13:00] BobbinTeegarden: By the way, John Zachman was looking for help in turning his boxes into an ontology, any takers? Mike Bennett and I were talking to him about it a few years ago...
[13:01] Douglas R Miles: An important part of a "query language" is when a "Select person from table1 where bornAfter 1950" (loves ?J Mary) if the binding of both of these should be considered the same people or not
[13:02] Douglas R Miles: (FromDatabase "Joe") vs JoeTheGuy should be unifiable
[13:03] ToddSchneider: Bobbin, ahhh .... Details. 'Relevance' can be modeled as a numerical value between 0 and 1 (similar to a probability, if not explicitly a probability). But 'Relevance' also depends on the object/subject of focus (i.e. what is of interest) and another (potentially relevant) entity.
[13:06] RaviSharma: Zachman - framework which deals with all types of tools from requirements to systems that run enterprises as in defense, manufacturing, in and then I asked my Q to John
[13:06] RaviSharma: john will send references
[13:07] RaviSharma: john- each specialization will be thru dialog, tools in framework etc
[13:08] RaviSharma: same dialog at each level for 6 rows
[13:11] RaviSharma: john- jcl, cobol, etc legacy to do software re engineering Arun and Andre - Tailored to derive ontology and find relations? Accenture estimates were 80 human years
[13:12] RaviSharma: john was able to have these two persons do it in few weeks with ontogies, NLP, etc level.
[13:15] RaviSharma: developing a general dialogue system
[13:15] Andrew Dougherty: D3WA+ ?
[13:15] RaviSharma: simplifying to QA level
[13:16] RaviSharma: people in Enterprise can talk about computer or language
[13:16] RaviSharma: john's comments above
[13:17] BobbinTeegarden: Isn't Zachman more oriented towards the process, not the data (ontology) side of the business?
[13:17] BobbinTeegarden: You go ahead and ask...
[13:18] RaviSharma: john cited reference for Bobbin link.
[13:19] RaviSharma: a link in his references list.
[13:20] David Eddy: ... & humans will ask a silent question by raising an eyebrow...
[13:22] RaviSharma: Thanks Ken, we need to tie UQL with KG SQL?
Added later by KenBaclawski: @RaviSharma: KGSQL is specified in DOL, which ties KGSQL with UQL. KGSQL is also specified with denotational semantics which is useful for directly implementing KGSQL. I have a translation to SPARQL. which could also be used for implementing KGSQL. Incidentally, the reason why I asked for the CLIP specification in DOL is so that I could develop a translation to CLIP.
[13:22] RaviSharma: thanks
[13:22] BobbinTeegarden: John, are you building us a tool to do the interaction within a DOL framework?
[13:23] Douglas R Miles: Problem is these great Natural Language Understanding stuff is kept locked up
[13:23] janet singer: The topic Formal Ontology as Computer Artifact that Alex suggested would be a way to concretize issues raised here. The terms syntax, semantics, pragmatics are helpfully clarified by understanding that humans and machines both play roles in the artifaction context.
Resources
- The slides are available from two sources:
- Video Recording