Ontolog Forum

Session Introductory
Duration 1 hour
Date/Time October 2 2019 16:00 GMT
9:00am PDT/12:00pm EDT
5:00pm BST/6:00pm CEST
Convener Ken Baclawski

Ontology Summit 2020 Open Discussion of Knowledge Graphs


Conference Call Information

  • Date: Wednesday, 02-October-2019
  • Start Time: 9:00am PDT / 12:00pm EDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 1600 UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: 1 hour
  • The Video Conference URL is
    • iPhone one-tap :
      • US: +16699006833,,689971575# or +16465588665,,689971575#
    • Telephone:
      • Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 646 558 8665
      • Meeting ID: 689 971 575
      • International numbers available:
  • Chat Room



[12:05] MikeBennett: The meeting page (agenda) URI does not work. This is it. It goes to a 404 from someone called CogSima.

KenBaclawski: The problem is that I have not yet configured https for the website. I will try to finish this in a day or so.

[12:12] David Eddy: People seem to be oblivious of the fact that humans have no innate means of measuring time.

[12:14] David Eddy: This is the post from Chaitanya Baru:

Dear Forum members:

I have recently been added to this forum. This is my first posting to the group, so I am hoping this message goes thru OK.

NSF recently funded a group of projects engaged in creating an Open Knowledge Network, under NSFs new program called the Convergence Accelerator. Our project kickoff meeting is from Oct 2-4. Today being the first day, I am not sure that I will be able to take time off to attend the knowledge graph discussion today will see.

In any case, I thought this group would be interested in knowing about this new initiative at NSF. You can get more information about the NSF program at,

These groups are under an accelerated timeframe to produce a set of deliverables for the Open Knowledge Network/graph, within 3 years.



Chaitanya Baru, PhD
Senior Science Advisor
Convergence Accelerator Office
Office of the Director
National Science Foundation
Phone: 703-292-2473

[12:21] MikeBennett: Are Open Knowledge Networks the new Knowledge Graphs, which are the new Linked Data?

[12:28] ToddSchneider: Kenneth, We should be able to get someone from Stardog to give their 'version of' and 'vision for' knowledge graphs.

[12:30] David Eddy: StarDog presented in Denver recently & few people in the audience were aware of GraphDBMSs!!!!

[12:35] David Eddy: For the record... I was present in an MIT IAP presentation by TBL where he flatly stated that his intent was "linked open data", which was deemed unsuitable marketing... so renamed/branded to "Semantic Web"

[12:36] MikeBennett: If there is a crypto currency called Ontology we should wait for the speculative bubble and all make money as experts in the thing

[12:36] David Eddy: @Ken... "knowledge graphs"... grab it. Knowledge Management is making a come back.

[12:37] janet singer: Here's the original question Paul Tyson: What is the advantage of rebranding W3C semantic technology stack as "Knowledge Graphs"? It wasn't necessary to rebrand the original HTML/HTTP stack as "Document Graphs".

[12:38] David Eddy: To this day, I have no idea in context of W3C / SemWeb where are the "semantics"?

[12:38] RaviSharma: Janet last week told us of approach to build KG concept overview from John Sowa and other graphs.

[12:39] MikeBennett: Some rigor in KM terms generally would suggest that Knowledge = Information + Meaning. Semantics adds something to data (and other information) that makes it usable as shared knowledge. It would not help to equate as Semantic = Knowledge, that's just fuzzy thinking.

[12:39] TerryLongstreth: One proposal in the NSF program mentioned above echoes many of the themes of our discussions this fall:

[12:40] David Eddy: @MikeB... plenty of seriously fuzzy thinking going around

[12:40] MikeBennett: Otherwise these phrases all collapse into a pool of meaningless conceptual goo.

[12:41] RaviSharma: Ravi - promised to make first attempt using thoughts of John, Janet, Ken and others.

[12:41] MikeBennett: @David Someone should do an ontology

[12:41] RaviSharma: Janet says set of diagrams and inputs needed to iterate.

[12:41] David Eddy: @MikeB... in my lexicon... "an" implies singular

[12:42] David Eddy: to stick to Ken's point... BRANDING is very, very, very important. Very hard too.

[12:42] RaviSharma: Mike said ontology of knowledge graphs? is that right?

[12:42] janet singer:

[12:44] David Eddy: I would most strongly urge referencing into JFS's collections.

[12:44] David Eddy: @Ken... when was Hendler/DARPA standing up DAML?

[12:46] David Eddy: Count me in on the "hodge-podge" standards

[12:47] David Eddy: Fig 5... the obligatory Gartner winners & losers graph

[12:48] RaviSharma: Todd KG in ontology sense.

[12:48] MikeBennett: I am referring to singular. Simply set out the meanings of concepts that are other represented by these various words that keep getting bandied around with no consistent meaning.

[12:49] MikeBennett: That's not the same as setting out how some technical product should be.

[12:49] RaviSharma: Janet functional depiction of KG architecture.

[12:50] RaviSharma: Different viewpoints - Janet, and Janet also said are related

[12:51] David Eddy: @MikeB: >> I am referring to singular. << from my data dictionary days, I've learned that people have great difficulty groking that postal code & zip code & post code are singular realities.

[12:53] RaviSharma: Ravi recalls the thought starting with CL, FOL, Conceptual Graphs, Subset as Knowledge Graphs, and finally how KGs are related to ontology.

[12:54] TerryLongstreth: @David Eddy - they have similar realities but syntax and meanings are not congruent

[12:54] RaviSharma: such a depiction would it be close to the overview diagram we are aiming at?

[12:55] RaviSharma: Janet- scoping, AI, viewpoints, scoping diagram,

[12:56] RaviSharma: Mike - architecture about connecting together is not the scope(?) Ravi lost the thread

[12:56] TerryLongstreth: Janet asks: Why do we care?

[12:57] David Eddy: We need to start such discussions with a picture & a video of a Klein bottle

[12:57] MikeBennett: I interrupted someone because they were interrupting Janet before I had a chance to reply to what she was still saying.

[12:58] MikeBennett: Let's be clear about what we mean by architecture, what we mean by the various words for things that are to be delivered, what is the architecture (components and their relations) of a solution that uses deliverables that are described in some of these terms.

[12:59] RaviSharma: Ken and Ravi agree that it is a good thing for summit 2017 AI related.

[12:59] MikeBennett: And as Janet suggests, let's start via something like Zachman (good old fashioned engineering) where we start by setting out the scope, business goals etc. of some of these OKN, KG, LD etc. deliverables.

[13:00] David Eddy: gotta go.

[13:01] Ken Baclawski: @David Eddy: The DAML Program started around 2000. The language went from being named DAML, to being DAML+OIL, and finally settled on OWL.

[13:01] RaviSharma: Janet likes focus on deliverables, produce value, of use to people that coheres the purpose, are they different technically or by benefits,

[13:02] ToddSchneider: Kenneth, I got an error message when I tried to get the Ontology Summit 2017 Communique, <Error>AccessDenied<Message>Access Denied</Message><RequestId>68A0ECE0DCB53431</RequestId><HostId>fNS1J5Cj0gGA+icLgL2bPb3w36nMqwq3owosZ16gAXJ5bg4s3dJgVqbNHWK0LKJhudruY24SJYI=</HostId></Error>

KenBaclawski: It seems to work fine now. Thanks for catching this.

[13:03] RaviSharma: Janet added how related to common vocabularies, etc, to separate syntax...

[13:05] RaviSharma: Ken on Chaitanya, requesting him to speak

[13:06] RaviSharma: If John could lead an introduction

[13:06] RaviSharma: that was Janet

[13:08] MikeBennett: Gotta go

[13:11] TerryLongstreth: Have to leave now, I'll rejoin after everyone else collects their definitions of Knowledge Graphs

[13:12] RaviSharma: Everyone to send one paragraph on KG and an overview diagram hopefully an overview!

[13:14] RaviSharma: no meeting next week

[13:14] RaviSharma: Oct 16 will be review of what we did.

[13:15] RaviSharma: FYI Unfortunately Ravi will be out on Oct 30 and Nov 6 because of jet lag/travel

[13:23] David Whitten:


Previous Meetings

... further results

Next Meetings

... further results