Ontolog Forum

Session Introductory
Duration 1 hour
Date/Time September 25 2019 16:00 GMT
9:00am PDT/12:00pm EDT
5:00pm BST/6:00pm CEST
Convener Ken Baclawski

Ontology Summit 2020 Followup Session with John Sowa


Conference Call Information

  • Date: Wednesday, 25-September-2019
  • Start Time: 9:00am PDT / 12:00pm EDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 1600 UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: 1 hour
  • The Video Conference URL is
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      • Meeting ID: 689 971 575
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  • Chat Room



[12:23] RaviSharma: John described web, RDBMS, and precise ontology

[12:25] RaviSharma: janet - said about pragmatics

[12:26] RaviSharma: John said it is about context

[12:28] RaviSharma: Tim Berners Lee - WWW 1994 suggested Semantic Web

[12:29] RaviSharma: Jim Handler - DARPA came for 2yr and proposed the DARPA Agent Markup Language (DAML) project

[12:31] RaviSharma: There was split between CL and DL people

[12:32] RaviSharma: Polynomials > 2 does not scale to web

KenBaclawski: Actually, DL is worse than polynomial. It is NEXP, Nondeterministic Exponential.

[12:32] RaviSharma: RDF and OWL were only preliminary but people took it as rigid.

[12:36] RaviSharma: Guha student of John McCarthy disagreed with Lenat, CyC but OWL dominated

[12:37] RaviSharma: FOL powerful but can not do many things

[12:37] RaviSharma: SQL is FOL, OWL is inefficient

[12:38] RaviSharma: Prolog is faster even in executing OWL

[12:40] RaviSharma: Ken worked on DAML, but his suggestions which would have made the language equivalent to FOL where not accepted.

KenBaclawski: Pat Hayes was also part of the DAML project, but was not involved one way or the other in this decision, at least not at the time. I also suggested inclusion of a framework for limited contexts (i.e., situation semantics) but this was also not accepted.

[12:43] janet singer: From the Ontology Summit 2020 Intro: The theme of the Summit is to examine KGs from a number of points of view ranging from low-level representation and storage techniques to high-level semantics, and from the vendors to the end users.

[12:44] RaviSharma: Formal Concept Analysis (FCA) - simple attributes - monatic relation, create lattice, wordnet, thesaurus, multi inherited, by push of button, little or no knowledge for data inputs, Tim and Jim wanted that kind of data input and application.

[12:46] janet singer: A goal for the communiqué could be to produce graphics relating those multiple dimensions listed to get the big picture

[12:46] RaviSharma: DoD did not fund more. A lot more has been developed in KB since then, but the technology has stayed the same.

[12:48] RaviSharma: Janet suggested diff depictions and graphics, microtheories, small representations, benefits of visuals, till DOL site as janet suggested, essentially look at where KGs sit

[12:49] RaviSharma: For the communiqué an overview diagram showing many of these elements.

[12:49] janet singer: HETS site, John's diagrams under IKL as reference points

[12:50] janet singer:

[12:50] RaviSharma: John- Oracle tried to block SQL open standards and weakened interoperability

[12:52] RaviSharma: Jim's diagram, Tim Berners Lee both diagrams, many are on John's URL we can borrow them for overall communiqué

[12:53] RaviSharma: John's web page on Semantic Networks for Wiley updated but KG to be added

[12:53] janet singer:

[12:53] RaviSharma: add KGs

[12:54] RaviSharma: CGIF and KG Q from? KG is a subset

[12:55] RaviSharma: John said existential and other kinds of graphs, so CL is base for representing all this

[12:55] RaviSharma: CGIF is linearization EGIF nd RDF can also be mapped to that

[12:58] RaviSharma: Arun Majumdar was not able to login he could in January or February may speak. John will give an introduction and Arun will describe software

[12:59] RaviSharma: Unnatural languages? Formal languages like software languages John says they can handle incompatibilities.

[13:01] RaviSharma: The least common ontology and parts in or not in common give you framework - go up lattice for lowest commonality

[13:02] RaviSharma: standards - dictionaries - cases - janet

[13:02] Douglas R. Miles: <- link to developer chat on Grakn

[13:03] RaviSharma: Pronunciations change relatively slowly. Meanings change and are added more quickly.

[13:05] RaviSharma: Cognitive memory attempts to map computer language to NL reverse engineering - all software with documents data and email - analysis of all knowledge in their software repository

[13:08] Douglas R. Miles: Ken, that link is how I usually contact Ganeshwara Herawan Hananda

[13:08] RaviSharma: John is saying all this - 40 person-years was the Accenture estimate, but Arun and Andre completed it in a 15 person-weeks project. They did semi-automatic Vivomind and complete analysis of JCL COBOL, engineering comments, parsed grammar with Prolog; using these derived an ontology from COBOL; mapped the English ontology; and then achieved a richer result in 15 weeks.

[13:08] RaviSharma: Arun and Andre achieved it.

[13:09] RaviSharma: Formal computer language to English NL.

[13:09] RaviSharma: John's slides showed this.

[13:12] RaviSharma: microfocused on COBOL for Unix, Ravi used it

[13:14] RaviSharma: Jeopardy Watson are making dent -John

[13:16] RaviSharma: John -Allegrograph, Franz, version of Prolog all is niche market, there is immense market for Apps

[13:16] RaviSharma: Continue with discussion next week

KenBaclawski: Note that there will not be a session two weeks from today (9 October).

[13:18] RaviSharma: Doug Miles spoke also


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