Ontolog Forum

Cloud Services and Semantic Integration - Thu 2016-03-03

Session Co-Chairs: Mark Underwood and Todd Schneider


Two important consequences of the “cloudification” of computing are DevOps and an API-first (espoused by Intel’s Brian Krzanich) design philosophy. While SOA and “composable services” introduced many of the same concepts in earlier generations (indeed, both DevOps and API-first steal from well-burnished concepts), the level of adoption across software and data providers is unprecedented. Computing environments for large scale projects can be stood up in minutes, tested and disposed of the following day. Products like Zapier and IFTTT allow for orchestration of cloud services across providers. The Zapier App Directory offers around 100 integrations. Interop exists across platforms (as in hybrid cloud storage), applications (e.g., between QuickBooks and a telephony app like DialMyCalls), and also what some are calling “cognitive services.” Cloudify suggests using TOSCA (a cloud orchestration standard) to connect resources like OpenStack or VMware using open source tools.) Github repositories can store ontologies, but can this be scaled up to build applications, sharing ontologies within or across domains? Will developers tempted to use ontologies be able to gain the same productivity benefits they experience elsewhere with cloud services? We ask a few vendors


Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 03-Mar-2016
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[12:22] Mark Underwood: David, Peio - Greetings!

[12:22] David Price: Hi

[12:22] David Price: I hear background music on Skype. Is that expected?

[12:23] Mark Underwood: David - Apologies for the inconvenient timing. FYI we do have a few folks from the UK now and then on the call

[12:23] David Price: ignore my question, I'm in

[12:23] Mark Underwood: yes, s/b music

[12:23] Peio @ Ontotext: Hi Mark, David

[12:45] Russ: I cannot see slides on my skype

[12:46] Russ: Please advise

[12:46] ToddSchneider: Russ, slides have to be downloaded separately. See the meeting page for URLs.

[12:47] Russ: Oh I have the decks. Which file are we looking at?

[12:47] ToddSchneider: Peio Popov is currently talking.

[12:47] Mark Underwood: "On demand RDF DB in the cloud"

[12:48] Russ: Got it

[12:51] ToddSchneider: Peio, what sorts of security features does S4 provide?

[12:51] BobbinTeegarden: @Peio what is the largest # of triples you have supported in one DB?

[12:53] ToddSchneider: Peio, what capabilities are provided to mitigate/bridge ontological differences(among differ graphs)?

[12:54] LeoObrst: @PeioPopov: text analytic services and ontology/rdf graph: are they fully integrated? I.e., define an ontology, use it to index a specific document collection (or database, or both), then provide a side-by-side marked up text view/ontology view (right side of slide 5), for semantic search and navigation?

[12:55] Ram D. Sriram: @peio: Is there a paper which provides a real-world example of Ontotext in action?

[12:57] Mark Underwood: Fits nicely into the "API-first' "design pattern" I mention later

[13:00] Donna Fritzsche: could you type in that number - I had trouble hearing

[13:00] ToddSchneider: Peio, could you expand on 'how it is used'?

[13:01] Russ: Great slide deck. One inconsistency with the colors for Persons and Person on slide #6

[13:02] Peio @ Ontotext:

[13:03] Peio @ Ontotext: 15 bilion

[13:03] Ram D. Sriram: @Peio: Thanks for the pointer

[13:03] Donna Fritzsche: 15,000,000,000 Thanks!

[13:04] Peio @ Ontotext:

[13:04] Mark Underwood: Peio advises that this reference provides benchmarking services for this app space

[13:06] LeoObrst: @PeioPopov: how about linking/mapping ontologies to provide semantically interoperable services/systems?

[13:09] Ken Laskey: If running in Cloud, how much can you make use of cloud elasticity so not limited by hardware on hand?

[13:11] Peio @ Ontotext: @LeoObrst, @ToddSchneider, @Ram D. Sriram, @Donna Fritzsche, @Ken would you please provide me your contact details so I could follow on your questions. You can reach me at

[13:12] Ken Laskey:

[13:12] ToddSchneider: Peio, will do (via your e-mail).

[13:16] LeoObrst:

[13:17] Peio @ Ontotext: Thank you all. I will have to run for a meeting! Please do email with all questions you have at:

[13:18] LeoObrst: Thank you, Peio.

[13:18] ToddSchneider: David, do you use ontologies for access control or other security aspects in an operational system.

[13:20] LeoObrst: @DavidPrice: do you use a policy engine, to enforce policy, potentially tailored to specific customers, or integrated services, etc.?

[13:24] BobbinTeegarden: @David if SPARQL is the phase 1 query language, what alternatives are being thought of for phase 2 query?

[13:25] Mark Underwood: @DavidPrice: The Interop/reuse question might be how much effort is needed to adapt ISO15926 for, say water drilling / ground water mgmt for drought-stricken California

[13:28] Donna Fritzsche: David, can you comment on governance and collaboration successes/challenges/etc that you have encountered on these projects.

[13:28] ToddSchneider: David, have you consider Common Logic?

[13:28] Mark Underwood: @DavidPrice: Nontechnical, editorial Q - The Summit posts this for public use; let us know if there's any proprietary content u want removed - thanks

[13:29] Russ: What is an example of a heavyweight approach [again please]?

[13:32] Donna Fritzsche: shackle standard - closed world, data validation

[13:34] AndreaWesterinen: Some of the work that I have been doing uses an ontology for access control + tests access via reasoning.

[13:36] Donna Fritzsche: very interesting! thank-you David

[13:36] David Price: Happy to help. If anyone has further questions, please feel free to get in touch.

[13:38] Ken Laskey: How does API-First compare to Contract-First?

[13:41] Donna Fritzsche: david - do you have a link for the "shackle" (sp?) effort

[13:43] BobbinTeegarden: With API-first, is bigger process (finally) creeping back into the ontology horizon?

[13:44] Donna Fritzsche: Mark - maybe we can have a post-summit follow-up meeting with additional vendor speakers

[13:44] LeoObrst: SHACL:

[13:44] Donna Fritzsche: thanks leo

[13:48] David Price: @Russ Heavyweight us the use of the ISO 15926 upper ontology 4-dimensionalism based approach for EPIM Reporting Hub in Oil and Gas in Norway

[13:49] ToddSchneider: Mark, does 'API-First' require a priori decisions?

[13:50] Donna Fritzsche: lymba is doing some work

[13:51] LeoObrst: @MarkUnderwood: slide 25 reminds me of what UDDI once upon a time intended.

[13:55] Russ: Connectors

[13:56] Russ: Ruled based / triggered connectors.

[13:56] Russ: *rules

[13:58] Russ: @David thanks

[13:59] BobbinTeegarden: Right. Where's Big Process? Could we build an executable ontology with process/rules integral to the structure?

[13:59] BobbinTeegarden: The ontology contains it's own APIs?

[14:01] MichaelGruninger: What are the new challenges and solutions wrt semantic interoperability that arise with cloud services?

[14:01] Donna Fritzsche:

[14:02] Ken Laskey: seems like something similar to zapier. Again, need to dig further.

[14:04] Russ: IFTTT, = cloud connector + iPaaS. Zapier = iPaaS variant.

[14:05] Russ: *iPaaS API variant

[14:06] ConradBeaulieu: We've been trying to generate APIs automatically into Swagger and Protobuf. We would like some support in tools like TopBraid to generate the YAML and other API definition languages.

[14:06] ConradBeaulieu: We have an ontology in RDF as a starting point.

[14:07] Russ: Duckduckgo has the Zero click ML API that defines people, places, things.

[14:08] Donna Fritzsche: The communication bottleneck can be overwhelming for developers.

[14:09] Donna Fritzsche: Conrad - who are you working with.

[14:10] Donna Fritzsche: Conrad - I think you are on to a good solution. API-driven does provide an enabler - as they speaker just said.

[14:11] BobbinTeegarden: RE UML as a problem: For ontology modeling that's UML based, see Cameo Concept Modeler and also VOM Visual Ontology Modeler (both MagicDraw based) -- model once, produce OWL, etc...

[14:13] Donna Fritzsche: Thanks Bobbin, good references.

[14:13] ConradBeaulieu: I am using TopBraid. I work for Honeywell Software

[14:14] LeoObrst: Have to leave, folks. Thanks, all.

[14:14] ToddSchneider: Bobbin, UML has too many constraints for non-object oriented domains (i.e., embedded assumptions).

[14:15] David Price: @Conrad A simple example of the kind of thing you might do to simplify an interface ontology is the use of magic properties, at least for read-only use cases.

[14:17] Donna Fritzsche: Ram - can you give the intro for next week?

[14:17] David Price: @Conrad wrt YAML, TopBraid does support JSON-LD in case that supports your need. Not that familiar with YAML other than an as a way to dump Ruby data structures into disk.

[14:18] Donna Fritzsche: Thanks everyone! Next week will be a series of talk on eHealth/Biotech and semantic interoperability.


Audio Recording