Actions

Ontolog Forum

Ontology Summit 2014 session-10 Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II - Thu 2014-03-20

  • Summit Theme: OntologySummit2014: "Big Data and Semantic Web Meet Applied Ontology"
  • Session Topic: Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II
  • Track-C Co-champions:
    • Professor PascalHitzler (Wright State University)
    • Professor KrzysztofJanowicz (University of California, Santa Barbara)
    • Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction)
  • Session Co-chairs: Dr. MatthewWest and Professor KrzysztofJanowicz ... intro slides

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Professor OscarCorcho (Universidad Politecnica de Madrid) - "10 basic rules to overcome ontology engineering deadlocks in collaborative ontology engineering tasks" ... slides
  • Dr. DhavalThakker (University of Leeds) - "Modeling Cultural Variations in Interpersonal Communication for Augmenting User Generated Content" ... slides
  • Dr. PeterHaase (Fluid Operations) (in absentia) - "Developing Semantic Applications with the Information Workbench - Aspects of Ontology Engineering" (to be presented by JohannesTrame) ... slides

Archives

Conference Call Details

  • Date: Thursday, 20-Mar-2014
  • Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 5:30pm CET / 3:30am [+1] AEDT / 16:30 GMT/UTC
  • Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours
  • Dial-in:
    • Phone (US): +1 (206) 402-0100 ... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184# ... (long distance cost may apply)
    • Skype: joinconference (i.e. make a skype call to the contact with skypeID="joinconference") ... (generally free-of-charge, when connecting from your computer ... ref.)
      • when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#
      • Unfamiliar with how to do this on Skype? ...
        • Add the contact "joinconference" to your skype contact list first. To participate in the teleconference, make a skype call to "joinconference", then open the dial pad (see platform-specific instructions below) and enter the Conference ID: 141184# when prompted.
        • you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online (i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)
      • Can't find Skype Dial pad? ...
        • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
        • for Linux Skype users: please note that the dial-pad is only available on v4.1 (or later; or on the earlier Skype versions 2.x,) if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it. ... (ref.)
  • Shared-screen support (VNC session), if applicable, will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ ... view-only password: "ontolog"
    • if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.
    • people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above (where applicable) and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.
  • In-session chat-room url: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/summit_20140320
    • instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field from "anonymous" to your real name, like "JaneDoe").
    • You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
    • thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. Digsby or Adium) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) summit_20140320@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!
  • Discussions and Q & A:
    • Nominally, when a presentation is in progress, the moderator will mute everyone, except for the speaker.
    • To un-mute, press "*7" ... To mute, press "*6" (please mute your phone, especially if you are in a noisy surrounding, or if you are introducing noise, echoes, etc. into the conference line.)
    • we will usually save all questions and discussions till after all presentations are through. You are encouraged to jot down questions onto the chat-area in the mean time (that way, they get documented; and you might even get some answers in the interim, through the chat.)
    • During the Q&A / discussion segment (when everyone is muted), If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, please raise your hand (virtually) by clicking on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the session moderator (again, press "*7" on your phone to un-mute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please. (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*6" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)
  • RSVP to peter.yim@cim3.com with your affiliation, ... or simply just by adding yourself to the "Expected Attendees" list below (if you are already a member of the community.)
  • Please note that this session may be recorded, and if so, the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content, along with the proceedings of the call to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.

Attendees

  • Expecting:
    • ...
    • (please add yourself to the list if you are a member of the Ontolog or Ontology Summit community, or, rsvp to <peter.yim@cim3.com>)

Abstract

Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II ... intro slides

This is our 9th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by Ontolog, NIST, NCOR, NCBO, IAOA & NCO_NITRD with the support of our co-sponsors.

Since the beginnings of the Semantic Web, ontologies have played key roles in the design and deployment of new semantic technologies. Yet over the years, the level of collaboration between the Semantic Web and Applied Ontology communities has been much less than expected. Within Big Data applications, ontologies appear to have had little impact.

This year's Ontology Summit is an opportunity for building bridges between the Semantic Web, Linked Data, Big Data, and Applied Ontology communities. On the one hand, the Semantic Web, Linked Data, and Big Data communities can bring a wide array of real problems (such as performance and scalability challenges and the variety problem in Big Data) and technologies (automated reasoning tools) that can make use of ontologies. On the other hand, the Applied Ontology community can bring a large body of common reusable content (ontologies) and ontological analysis techniques. Identifying and overcoming ontology engineering bottlenecks is critical for all communities.

Ontology Summit 2014 will pose and address the primary challenges in these areas of interaction among the different communities. The Summit activities will bring together insights and methods from these different communities, synthesize new insights, and disseminate knowledge across field boundaries.

In this session we will look at a range of ways that bottlenecks arise and can be overcome, including annotating linked data, overcoming deadlocks in ontology development, and using a workbench to develop semantic applications.

After the panelists briefings, there will be time for Q&A and an open discussion among the panel and all participants.

See more details at: OntologySummit2014 (homepage for this summit)

Briefings

  • Professor OscarCorcho (Universidad Politecnica de Madrid) - "10 basic rules to overcome ontology engineering deadlocks in collaborative ontology engineering tasks" ... slides
    • Abstract: ... This talk will be based on our experience in the development of a suite of ontologies for different stakeholders from the public administration in Spain. In this collaborative ontology engineering effort we have faced a good number of difficulties that were about to produce deadlocks in our ontology engineering activity. We will discuss about the techniques that we have used in order to face them, many of which stem from traditional ontology engineering practice, and will reflect on the varying degrees of success in their application.
  • Dr. DhavalThakker (University of Leeds) - "Modeling Cultural Variations in Interpersonal Communication for Augmenting User Generated Content" ... slides
    • Abstract: ... There is a plethora of user-generated content on the Social Web containing user opinions and experiences on interpersonal communication. Culture is a key factor in interpersonal communication. User contributions can be a rich source to discover cultural variations in interpersonal communication, expressing perspectives of contributors with diverse demography and cultural profiles. One of the ways to mine user-generated content is using semantic augmentation, which relies on knowledge structures offered by ontologies. In this work, carried out in the context of the EU project ImREAL, we have followed a theory-driven approach for developing cultural variations in interpersonal communication as part of Activity Model Ontology (AMOn+) for augmenting user-generated content. Specifically we have utilised established theories on culture to provide base knowledge structure to the conceptualization. For extending the base structure and to achieve more concrete conceptualization, we have utilized DBpedia. We evaluate the resultant ontology with augmentation of user-generated content to test its fit-for-purpose utility. Our approach highlights the challenges and opportunities posed by using crowd-sourced, open ontologies such as DBpedia.
  • Dr. PeterHaase (Fluid Operations) - "Developing Semantic Applications with the Information Workbench - Aspects of Ontology Engineering" ... slides
    • Abstract: ... The Information Workbench is a platform for the development of semantic applications. It comes with a solution development kit (SDK) and a flexible, ontology-driven user interface that allows to easily create new solutions for different industries and domains. The SDK includes an open API, semantic data integration through data providers, support for OWL ontology modeling and semantic data management, rules and workflows, as well an extensible pool of widgets for data interaction. The ontology is the "backbone" of the application that defines how data is integrated, structured and presented in the user interface. In the presentation, we outline our approach of ontology engineering and corresponding application development, including aspects of ontology reuse and tradeoffs in expressiveness vs. pragmatics. We also present application scenarios in different domains, such as data center management and social media.

Agenda

OntologySummit2014 session-01 Track-A: Common Reusable Semantic Content-I

Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call

Proceedings

Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.)

Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

Chat transcript from room: summit_20140320

2014-03-20 GMT-08:00 [PDT]

[8:34] Peter P. Yim: Welcome to the

Ontology Summit 2014 session-10 Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II - Thu 2014-03-20

Summit Theme: Summit Theme: Ontology Summit 2014: "Big Data and Semantic Web Meet Applied Ontology"

Session Topic: Track-C: Overcoming Ontology Engineering Bottlenecks - II

Track-C Co-champions:

Professor Krzysztof Janowicz (University of California, Santa Barbara),

Professor Pascal Hitzler (Wright State University),

Dr. Matthew West (Information Junction)

Session Co-chairs: Professor Krzysztof Janowicz and Dr. Matthew West

Panelists / Briefings:

  • Professor Oscar Corcho (Universidad Politecnica de Madrid) - "10 basic rules to overcome ontology engineering deadlocks in collaborative ontology engineering tasks"
  • Dr. Dhaval Thakker (University of Leeds) - "Modeling Cultural Variations in Interpersonal Communication for Augmenting User Generated Content"
  • Dr. Peter Haase (Fluid Operations) (in absentia) - "Developing Semantic Applications with the Information Workbench - Aspects of Ontology Engineering" (to be presented by JohannesTrame)

Logistics:

  • (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName; also please enable "Show timestamps" while there.
  • Mute control (phone keypad): *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute
    • you may connect to (the skypeID) "joinconference" whether or not it indicates that it is online

(i.e. even if it says it is "offline," you should still be able to connect to it.)

    • if you are using skype and the connection to "joinconference" is not holding up, try using (your favorite POTS or

VoIP line, etc.) either your phone, skype-out or google-voice and call the US dial-in number: +1 (206) 402-0100

... when prompted enter Conference ID: 141184#

    • Can't find Skype Dial pad?
      • for Windows Skype users: Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"
      • for Linux Skype users: if the dialpad button is not shown in the call window you need to press the "d" hotkey to enable it
  • when posting in this Chat-room, kindly observe the following ...
    • whenever a name is used, please use the full WikiWord name format (every time you don't, some volunteer will have to make an edit afterwards)
    • always provide context (like: "[ref. JaneDoe's slide#12], I think the point about context is great" ... rather than "that's great!"

as the latter would mean very little in the archives.)

    • when responding to a specific individual's earlier remarks, please cite his/her full WikiWord names *and*

the timestamp (in PST) of his/her post that you are responding to (e.g. "@JaneDoe [11:09] - I agree, but, ...")

    • use fully qualified url's (include http:// ) without symbols (like punctuations or parentheses, etc.) right before of after that URL

Attendees: Alex Shkotin, Amanda Vizedom, Anatoly Levenchuk, Andrea Westerinen, Anne Thessen,

Bart Gajderowicz, Bobbin Teegarden, Carmen Chui, Carol Bean, Christi Kapp, Conrad Beaulieu, Dennis Pierson,

Dhaval Thakker, Earl Glynn, Ed Bernot, GaryBergCross, Harold Boley, JaanaTakis, James Overton,

Joanne Luciano, Johannes Trame, Ken Baclawski, Krzysztof Janowicz, Lamar Henderson, Leo Obrst, Les Morgan,

Marcela Vegetti, Maria Herrero, Mark Fox, Matthew West, Michael Grüninger, Mike Bennett, Naicong Li,

Nancy Wiegand, Oscar Corcho, Pascal Hitzler, Paul Witherell, Peter P. Yim, Ram D. Sriram, Siew Lam, Simon Spero,

Sunday Ojo, Tara Athan, Terry Longstreth, Tim Finin, Todd Schneider, Uri Shani,

proceedings

[9:20] anonymous morphed into Carmen Chui

[9:22] anonymous morphed into Johannes Trame

[9:24] anonymous morphed into Oscar Corcho

[9:25] anonymous morphed into Dhaval Thakker

[9:26] Krzysztof Janowicz: Hi

[9:27] anonymous morphed into Paul Witherell

[9:28] Mark Fox: I'm here - no Microphone.

[9:29] Pascal Hitzler: Is the VNC session already online? Seems I can't connect

[9:31] Krzysztof Janowicz: VNC is not working for me (at the moment)

... [PeterYim responded verbally: Yes it is working, but strictly optional; so

don't worry, if you can't access it for any reason now.]

[9:40] Krzysztof Janowicz: Usually VNC works for me but not this time. Anyway, we can just download the slides.

[9:31] anonymous morphed into Conrad Beaulieu

[9:34] anonymous morphed into Les Morgan

[9:36] anonymous morphed into Bart Gajderowicz

[9:37] Oscar Corcho: that's strange

[9:37] Oscar Corcho: I was unmuted

[9:37] Oscar Corcho: Sorry, I was able to speak before. I will call again

[9:37] Matthew West: You need *7 on your Skype keypad to unmute yourself

[9:37] Amanda Vizedom: Oscar Corcho, try *7

[9:37] Jaana Takis morphed into JaanaTakis

[9:38] anonymous2 morphed into Lamar Henderson

[9:38] Peter P. Yim: are you on the call yet, Oscar?

[9:39] Amanda Vizedom: Someone who is unmuted is creating some background noise (typing, paper-shuffling)

[9:41] Peter P. Yim: == Krzysztof Janowicz starts the session ... see slides under:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_03_20#nid4A0E

[9:43] anonymous1 morphed into Bobbin Teegarden

[9:44] Peter P. Yim: @anonymous: (if you haven't already done so) please click on "settings" (top

center) and morph from "anonymous" to your RealName

[9:46] Peter P. Yim: == Oscar Corcho presenting ...

[9:53] anonymous1 morphed into Simon Spero

[9:55] anonymous1 morphed into Dennis Pierson

[9:59] anonymous1 morphed into Tim Finin

[9:55] Andrea Westerinen: [ref. OscarCorcho's slide#5] +1 for starting from Excel. It is pretty easy

to write a converter from Excel data to RDF/OWL.

[9:59] Simon Spero: @AndreaWesterinen: new linked-csv activity underway at W3

[9:59] Amanda Vizedom: Starting from excel (as per Oscar's slide 5) is often done and can be very

useful, BUT things go awry when people forget that semantics are not explicit or enforced in entry.

For example, I've seen folks send a group of domain experts off to build an initial concept capture

using an excel template. The results vary widely in how different groups interpret the semantics of

the template, and there isn't anything in excel-as-development-environment to help. Working *with*

an ontologist, it's not so bad, as that person can be on the lookout for semantic drift.

[10:01] Andrea Westerinen: @AmandaVizedom [9:59] +1 regarding completeness and consistency, but the

Excel is a start, not the end. That is why I have converted to RDF/OWL and then continued from there.

[10:04] Amanda Vizedom: @AndreaWesterinen [10:01] -- agree. The real messes I've seen result not from

using excel early, but from thinking that because SMEs know how to use it, they can use it to

document their concepts in an ontology-friendly or conversion-friendly way, without help.

[9:59] Dhaval Thakker: ROO ( available at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/confluence/ ) is a tool

specifically designed to work with non Ontology-savvy audience.

[10:00] anonymous1 morphed into Carol Bean

[9:59] Krzysztof Janowicz: [ref. OscarCorcho's slide#7] +1 on late reuse

[10:01] Amanda Vizedom: +1 on postponing reuse until after first capture. Same with in-depth

specification of out-of-domain concepts (time, for example). Placeholders that get replaced or

aligned later will let the conversation continue *within* the experts' normal cognitive space.

[10:03] Simon Spero: There's a step to create between competency questions and user stories

[10:04] Dhaval Thakker: [re. OscarCorcho's slide#11] obvious question is why *five* :-)

[10:08] Simon Spero: @DhavalThakker:

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/01/15/the-right-or-wrong-size-for-a/ ... < 20, > 8?

[10:08] Dhaval Thakker: Thanks Simon Spero

[10:06] anonymous1 morphed into Joanne Luciano

[10:05] Simon Spero: create competency questions from user stories (as an instrument designer I want

to be able to be able to represent calibration data

[10:08] Dhaval Thakker: [re. OscarCorcho's slide#13] "Rec6: Just work with text patterns, and guide

them to write good term definitions" - Agree. Can this be Controlled Natural Language (CNL)?

[10:10] Simon Spero: ACE

[10:10] Simon Spero: If it loads into protege it loaded into protege

[10:14] Andrea Westerinen: @SimonSpero [10:10] I have found ACE to be way too controlled and

requiring obvious info to be useful for normal people.

[10:20] Simon Spero: @Andrea: yes and no :) Using a more ambiguous grammar, with semantic

disambiguation would be better for most, but editor support made a big difference

[10:21] Simon Spero: (For entry. Comprehension was good).

[10:22] Andrea Westerinen: @SimonSpero [10:20] Agree. Editor support could make a huge difference.

Also need reverse verbalization support.

[10:22] Simon Spero: If only there was a common sense knowledge base to start from -

https://github.com/Kaljurand/owl-verbalizer

[10:25] Andrea Westerinen: @SimonSpero [10:22] Thanks. Will check it out.

[10:11] Dhaval Thakker: @SimonSpero yes, ACE. But ROO is better (

http://sourceforge.net/projects/confluence/ ). We have developed it in Leeds :-)

[10:18] Amanda Vizedom: @DhavalThakker [10:11] Checking out ROO. Thanks for tip. [Note that end

punctuation got taken up into link in your comment]

[10:11] Amanda Vizedom: Regarding use of text patterns: Multiple projects over many years now have

also found a sweet spot in form-based or diagram-based entry tools that are customized by an

ontologist, for particular sets of SMEs & elicitation cases, and generate the formal ontology under

the hood without showing it to the SMEs. This can be less lossy,

[10:12] Simon Spero: Owlapi fixes a lot of broken stuff behind the curtain. Working to make these

fixes more noisy in version4

[10:13] Matthew West: On reuse, you need to establish your requirements first. Otherwise you do not

know if reuse is appropriate.

[10:13] Peter P. Yim: == Dhaval Thakker presenting ...

[10:16] Joanne Luciano: cute smiley face (the slide layout)

[10:24] Amanda Vizedom: Aside regarding DhavalThakker's slide 6: I think that similar work will be

useful at the scale of culture and communications within communities of practice and organizations

as well. This is based on my experiences with large, cross-community, cross-domain projects, in

which these variations are quite apparent and must be handled somehow. "Same" community becomes

culturally different community over time, as well.

[10:29] anonymous1 morphed into Uri Shani

[10:33] ... Uri Shani: when did this started?

[10:33] ... Matthew West: An hour ago. Daylight savings has come in in the US.

[10:34] Amanda Vizedom: re @DhavalThakker's slide 15 -- nice, clean example of one way an ontology

can be fine in principle but not fit for purpose, in a way that potential users would want to know.

In a way this about levels of abstraction, also granularity. I'm thinking about this from

perspective of upcoming hackathon project to model characteristics of ontologies that are relevant

to fitness evaluation. Wondering whether it might work (well enough?) to specify "grains" in various

ways. Not looking for answer here, but I hope others who think this is interesting might join the hackathon. :-)

[10:35] GaryBergCross: Nice example of semantic content reuse in DBPedia.

[10:36] Matthew West: And seeking to automate annotation is a good approach to overcoming bottlenecks.

[10:38] Joanne Luciano: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18416669

[10:38] Joanne Luciano: OMICS. 2008 Jun;12(2):129-36. doi: 10.1089/omi.2008.0016. Habitat-Lite: a GSC

case study based on free text terms for environmental metadata. Hirschman L1, Clark C, Cohen KB, Mardis S,

Luciano J, Kottmann R, Cole J, Markowitz V, Kyrpides N, Morrison N, Schriml LM, Field D; Novo Project.

[10:39] Joanne Luciano: Estimate that the terms in the initial version of Habitat-Lite would provide

useful labels for over 60% of the kinds of information found in the GenBank isolation_source field,

and around 85% of the terms in the GOLD habitat field.

[10:40] Joanne Luciano: my comment is more technical (and abstract) with respect not to culture but

to how the ontology is being developed and more the evaluation.

[10:40] Peter P. Yim: == Johannes Trame presenting on behalf of Peter Haase ...

[10:42] Harold Boley: http://www.optique-project.eu/

[10:48] ... Peter P. Yim: [ JohannesTrame's voice line dropped at 10:46; after calling back in -

resumption of JohannesTrame's presentation - slide#3 "platform layer"]

[11:04] anonymous1 morphed into Maria Herrero

[11:05] GaryBergCross: Thanks for a good slide on Reuse that Track A can leverage!

[11:05] Michael Grüninger: @JohannesTrame: what are some of the specific ontologies that you have

designed within this framework? How have you reused these ontologies across clients?

[11:06] Oscar Corcho: [JohannesTrame-PeterHaase: slide 18] In my opinion, we should not forget that

it is not only about reusing other ontologies, but also allowing that the one that you create can be

reused (e.g., in my examples, across the open data portals community in Spain)

[11:07] GaryBergCross: "Software engineers tend to have preference for 'theirown' solutions" This

generalizes way beyond SWE or data engineers or engineers as a whole. It more or less true of most of us.

[11:08] Mike Bennett: @JohannesTrame-PeterHaase on slide 19 re-use of ontologies: given these are

from industry verticals, what experiences do you have in common abstractions between these

ontologies e.g. if music ontology and conference ontology may have concepts in common?

[11:09] Peter P. Yim: == Q & A and Open Discussion ...

[10:47] Leo Obrst: RE: controlled natural language: in addition to the usual suspects, Ed Barkmeyer of

NIST and Fabian Neuhaus (when he was at NIST) were working on a controlled language on top of Common

Logic (and a CL reasoner). I don't know the final state of their effort.

[11:07] Simon Spero: @LeoObrst: [10:47] Published version of TobiasKuhn's survey of CNL is finally

out : http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/COLI_a_00168

[11:10] Simon Spero: @LeoObrst: Final report on NIST effort (RECON) is at

http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=911267

[11:16] Leo Obrst: @SimonSpero: Thanks!

[11:11] Amanda Vizedom: [re. KrzysztofJanowicz's verbal question for OscarCorcho's slide#14]

Regarding the domain & range disuse view: I have run into this occasionally, and think it is bad

practice and is based on a misdiagnosis...

[11:11] Krzysztof Janowicz: yes, instead of local scopes

[11:12] Matthew West: @AmandaVizedom [11:11] I agree. The underlying problem is that the domain and

range are set more restrictively than is really the case.

[11:12] Oscar Corcho: @AmandaVizedom: I agree

[11:14] Krzysztof Janowicz: very good example

[11:15] Mike Bennett: Summarizing @AmandaVizedom: sometimes a property is asserted at too detailed a

level, but the opposite practice of removing domain and range altogether is also a bad practice.

[11:15] Joanne Luciano: To add to Amanda's comment, about including domain and range, I agree. It's

nice too when documentation is included in the ontology (in the definition / comment)

[11:06] Matthew West: [re. JohannesTrame-PeterHaase slide 18] We need to remember that reuse is not

an end in itself, but a possible means of delivering a solution quicker and cheaper.

[11:11] GaryBergCross: @MatthewWest On this issue of reuse, it is not an end in itself, but IF there

are good things to leverage it would help get towards standardization. In addition if one finds that

something is not reusable, stating the defects helps the field.

[11:15] Matthew West: @GaryBergCross [11:11]: Quite. Reuse can reduce the cost because you do not

have to redevelop. It can also help increase quality, reuse tends to get rid of bugs. Finally, if

you have integration requirements across applications, then using the same ontology for both will

reduce the costs of interfacing. These are all however ends, which reuse alone is not.

[11:15] GaryBergCross: Ideas like domain and range are seductive since they seem to have a good

cost-benefit ratio. Little effort to get what seems like an extension to the model.

[11:16] Amanda Vizedom: It is recommended as a supposed fix for the frequent occurance of properties

that are not represented at a correct and consistent level of generality. It is sometimes as simple

as the name of the property being too general (e.g."controls" instead of "controllsFinancially").

Sometimes it is more complicated...

[11:17] GaryBergCross: @Mathew. Yes, good reuse affords some ends such as quality and is a means to

these, but not a end in itself.

[11:17] Krzysztof Janowicz: @GaryBergCross: I agree. Especially when it comes to patterns careless (too

restrictive) use of global domain and range is dangerous. thus, I prefer local domain and range definitions.

[11:17] GaryBergCross: On domain and range, one might ask what are these for the Competency Questions.

[11:18] Krzysztof Janowicz: +o

[11:18] Amanda Vizedom: ... An appropriate correction, at minimum, is to apply a bit of discipline in

identifying what is the specificity of the property intended, naming and labeling it in a way that

reflects that and setting a domain and range appropriately to that.

[11:22] Amanda Vizedom: Going beyond that (my [11:18]), it is also good practice to evaluate whether

you can define a narrow property that you need immediately as a subPropertyOf a general property

that already exists or that you can also create. This helps to define your specific property more

clearly, as well as creating or connecting to reusable content.

[11:18] Mike Bennett: My own view: given the intended meaning of a concept, it should surely set the

domain (and maybe range) which corresponds to the meaning of the concept, e.g. a property that is

explicitly about contracts should have a domain of Contract. But as @MatthewWest says this require

imagination so that when you think about the meaning a property you think about all the things it

can be a property of and all the kinds of thing it can be framed in terms of - creating a

sub-property or a restriction as appropriate for the concept you were originally thinking of.

[11:19] Michael Grüninger: I'm a little perplexed why domain/range constraints are so problematic.

They arise quite naturally from any UML class diagram ...

[11:21] Matthew West: @MichaelGruninger [11:19]: Yes, and these mistakes are routinely made in those

diagrams, with relationships being stated at a lower level of abstraction than is really true. For

example, an ontology for equipment, may say that one type of equipment must have another type of

equipment as a part, but there are other things than equipment for which this is true.

[11:21] Uri Shani: doman/range is better than using restrictions.

[11:21] Simon Spero: @MichaelGruninger: The problem is partly what they constrain (the models)

[11:22] Simon Spero: @MichaelGruninger: where those words are opposite of what most non-specialists think

[11:23] Mike Bennett: @MichaelGruninger in FIBO we started out with what's on the corresponding UML

class diagrams, and created a deep subsumption hierarchy of properties. This wasn't ideal for OWL

usage since in many cases the multiple properties represented the same meaning with some changes to

range. THe balance we are trying to aim for is to have a separate property only when there is an

identifiably new meaning in play. However if I'm honest we haven't achieved that in the current

version (someone decided to promote loads of properties to have no domain or range!!)

[11:24] Krzysztof Janowicz: Mike Bennett [11:23], I agree

[11:23] Leo Obrst: @AmandaVizedom [11:22]: actually, we use Events and States as classes, both for

NLP and other uses, and so will have a Stative like Possess, which is generic but has local property

restrictions for generic thematic participants (doing the job of domains/ranges), then have more

specific events/states under these with more specialized property restrictions.

[11:23] Simon Spero: or vice versa

[11:24] Simon Spero: [user stories to competency stories

[11:24] Simon Spero: BDD

[11:24] Amanda Vizedom: @MichaelGruninger "[11:19] I'm a little perplexed why domain/range

constraints are so problematic" ... The problem is worst in OWL because people frequently

misunderstand the effect of domain and range there. I have only seen this disuse recommendation

there, perhaps because it is harder there (than in more expressive languages) to say what you mean

to say about domain and range.

[11:26] Krzysztof Janowicz: @AmandaVizedom: yes because in OWL they have an inferential semantics and

most non-DL conceptual modellers do not know that and think of them as constraints. This makes their

usage difficult and often problematic

[11:35] Amanda Vizedom: @KrzystofJanowicz [11:26], yes, the constraint vs type-inference consequences

are a big source of confusion. IMHO it is exacerbated by the difficulty of creating the

constraint-like d/r in OWL, versus other languages. In some languages, there are simply alternative

properties to use depending on which type of assertion you mean to make (see schema:domainIncludes

or Cycl arg constraints for example.

[11:35] Krzysztof Janowicz: @AmandaVizedom: yes, I agree

[11:36] Simon Spero: @amandaVizedom: There's also N-BOXes which are attempts to add NAF to OWL

[11:36] Simon Spero: see: http://trowl.eu/

[11:26] Michael Grüninger: My point is that the discussion of domain/range is part of the ontological

analysis phase of ontology design, but that it is not some new concept that is foreign to someone

who knows UML class diagrams.

[11:27] Amanda Vizedom: See this G+ post from BernardVatant this morning, and the related comments

(on domain range specification in LOV vocabularies)

[11:27] Amanda Vizedom: https://plus.google.com/114406186864069390644/posts/D3kkqNCoQZ9

[11:38] Krzysztof Janowicz: Thanks for sharing the link to BernardVatant's blog entry. I agree with his conclusions.

[11:28] Uri Shani: About domain/range and restrictions: you can conclude what is a range/domain from

a restriction, but without at least saying what is the domain/range of a property, how can you relate

concepts with one another? So I'd say that domain/range is a minimum to imply some structure on an ontolgy.

[11:28] Simon Spero: http://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/presentations/introduction-to-user-stories

[11:30] ... GaryBergCross: Following all these interesting links is going to take the rest of my day :-)

[11:30] ... Uri Shani: what day? it is night already!

[11:30] ... Simon Spero: Uri Shani: restrictions on Thing or Nothing

[11:32] ... Simon Spero: Uri Shani: UTC+2, meet UTC-4

[11:32] ... GaryBergCross: @Uri You have till "tomorrow"

[11:33] ... Uri Shani: :)

[11:33] ... Simon Spero: Uri Shani: (was easier when I working at Technion, as family who weren't in

UK were in herzliya pituach or jerusalem :)

[11:34] GaryBergCross: Culture is a suitable topic but we should expect small steps as you say. Do

you leverage the D & S pattern?

[11:34] Peter P. Yim: ... [DhavalThakker introduces the coordinator of the IMREAL Project] Vania Dimitrova

who gave verbal remarks extending on some of the points Dhaval Thakker was making about "culture" and

concedes that there are still a lot of open questions

[11:37] Dhaval Thakker: sorry we (DhavalThakker and VaniaDimitrova) got disconnected.

[11:35] Peter P. Yim: @ALL: as announced by our Symposium co-chairs, Professor Tim Finin and Dr. Ram

Sriram yesterday, our Apr 28~29 Symposium (at NSF in Greater Washington DC) is now open for

registration. Please register yourself ASAP, as capacity is limited - see:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014/WorkshopRegistration ... Note that new

information about the availability (until Apr-4) of hotel reservation block (with preferred rates)

has been posted!

[11:35] Peter P. Yim: @ALL: Please mark your calendars and reserve this time, every Thursday, for the

Ontology Summit 2014 virtual panel session series. In particular ... Session-11 will be up next

Thursday - Thu 2014.03.27 - Ontology Summit 2014: "Track D: Tackling the Variety Problem in Big Data -

II" *** Again, please pay special attention to the start-time (9:30am PDT), as this week is still

among the tricky ones, when N.America is in Summer time, Europe is still in Winter time, and lots of

other regions don't do daylight saving time at all! *** - see developing details at:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2014_03_27 ... the start-time fopr various

time-zones will be clearly posted there

[11:35] Peter P. Yim: @org-comm members, Reminder to those in the organizing committee, our next meeting

(n.09) is coming up tomorrow - Fri 2014.03.21 - see:

http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2014/GettingOrganized#nid49M7

[11:35] Peter P. Yim: great session!

[11:35] Leo Obrst: Thanks, all! Very good session.

[11:35] Uri Shani: thanks!!

[11:37] Dhaval Thakker: thanks all

[11:38] Krzysztof Janowicz: bye bye

[11:35] Peter P. Yim: -- session ended: 11:32 am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --

  • Further Question & Remarks - please post them to the [ ontology-summit ] listserv
    • all subscribers to the previous summit discussion, and all who responded to today's call will automatically be subscribed to the [ ontology-summit ] listserv
    • if you are already subscribed, post to <ontology-summit [at] ontolog.cim3.net>
    • (if you are not yet subscribed) you may subscribe yourself to the [ ontology-summit ] listserv, by sending a blank email to <ontology-summit-join [at] ontolog.cim3.net> from your subscribing email address, and then follow the instructions you receive back from the mailing list system.
    • (in case you aren't already a member) you may also want to join the ONTOLOG community and be subscribed to the [ ontolog-forum ] listserv, when general ontology-related topics (not specific to this year's Summit theme) are discussed. Please refer to Ontolog membership details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nid1J
      • kindly email <peter.yim@cim3.com> if you have any question.

Additional Resources

For the record ...

How To Join (while the session is in progress)



Retrieved from "https://ontologforum.com/index.php?title=ConferenceCall_2014_03_20&oldid=2795"